Tag Archives: fp

Iterators? We Don’t NEED No Stinking Iterators!

Every so often a request for “implementation of iterators for maps” over hashes/maps/dicts or some other K-V data structure appears on mailing list for a functional langauge. I’ve spent years making heavy use of iterators in imperative languages, and the way they fit into Python is really great. For Python. I totally understand where some of these folks are coming from, they just don’t realize that functional languages are not where they came from.

So… “Is this post the result of some actual event”? Yeah, you got me. It is. On the erlang-questions mailing list someone asked “Are maps ever going to get an iterator?” Again.

Erlang is definitely not Kansas, but people thinking either that it is or (more dangerously) that it should be and then trying to influence the maintainers to make it that way (and then the powers-that-be getting in a panic over “market share” and doing horrible things to the language…) worries me a bit.

There is no faster way to paint a functional language into a corner than to try making it occasionally imperative. Conversely, consider the syntactic corner C++ and Java have painted themselves into by trying to include functional features as after-thoughts where they really didn’t belong.

(I know, I know, death-by-kitchen-sink is a proud C++ tradition. It is becoming one for Java. Even though I hate Java there is no sense in making it worse by cluttering its syntax and littering it with gotchas and newbie-unfriendly readability landmines in the interest of providing features few Java coders understand the point of, especially when the whole concept of state management in a bondage-and-discipline OOP language like Java is to keep everything in structs with legs (not anonymous closures over state that is temporarily in scope…). The lack of such problems were previously one of the main points that favored Java over C++… well, that and actual encapsulation. Hopefully Rust and D can resist this temptation.)

This frustrates me. It is almost as if instead of picking a tool that matches a given job, people learn one tool and then try over time to make a super-powered Swiss Army knife of it. This never turns out well. The result is more Frankenstein’s Monster than Swiss Army knife and in the best case it winds up being hard to learn, confusing to document and crap at everything.

What’s worse, people assume that the first tool they learned well is the standard by which everything else should be judged (if so, then why are they learning anything else?). It follows, then, that if a newly studied LangX does not have a feature of previously used LangY then it must be introduced because it is “missing”. (I do admit, though, to wishing other languages had pattern matching in function heads… but I don’t bring this up on mailing lists as if its a “missing feature”; I do, however, cackle insanely when overloading is compared with matching.)

Let’s say we did include iterators for maps into Erlang — whatever an “iterator” is supposed to mean in a list-are-conses type functional language. What would that enable?

-spec foreach(fun(), map()) -> ok.

That sort of looks pointless. Its exactly the same as lists:foreach(Fun, maps:to_list(Map)) or maybe lists:foreach(Fun, maps:values(Map)). Without knowing whether we’re trying to build a new map based on the old one or get some side effect out of Fun then its hard to know what the point is.

Maybe:

-spec map(fun(), OldMap :: map()) -> {ok, NewMap :: map()}.

But… wait, isn’t that just maps:map/2 all over again?

I think I know where this is going, though. These people really wish maps were ordered dictionaries, because they want keys to be ordered. So they want something like this:

-spec side_effects_in_order_dammit(fun(), map()) -> ok.
side_effects_in_order_dammit(F, M) ->
    Ordered = [{K, maps:get(K, M)} || K <- lists:sort(maps:keys(M))],
    ok = lists:foreach(F, Ordered).

But wait, what order should the keys be in, anyway?

This is a slow, steady march to insanity. “Give me iterators” begets “Let’s have ordered maps” begets “Let’s have ordered iterators for maps” and so on, and eventually you wind up with most of the Book of Genesis in the Devil’s Bible of Previously Decent Functional Languages. All the while, totally forgetting that these things already exist in another form. There are more data structures than just maps for a reason.

This just gets ridiculous, and it isn’t even what hashes are about to begin with.